the ambition against the obama campaign in six months are obviously going to be smaller in four years. >> host: do you think that this campaign is going to rely more on messaging in the presidential campaign or on the targeting technics? what is the next? i mean how much -- does the message still matter or can you just fine-tune it and targeted better and that will be the difference? how you put that together? >> guest: the message still matters in one of the things, this whole narrative takes place 10 to 15 years, has taken place in an era of real partisan polarization so one of the 2007 being this really formative moment i think in terms of innovation and politics for two reasons. one is a close election and so campaigns that might have once said 1%, 2% more than a vote if i this campaign started, like i could use one or 2% and so they are starting to be a real focus on techniques that can provide very small but measurable boosts. that is one thing that happened in 2001 thing is we realize we were moving in this deadlock polarized era. the chief -- chief pollster for the bush campai